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Quoting myself:
"Raiding is cyberbullying" is a claim I've heard way too much already. It's not. It would be if raiders just picked one region and wouldn't stop attacking them all the time instead of any other random region. They don't."
Atsvea and Lord Dominator
While I agree with you that raiding is not cyberbullying, raiders are bullies. In the same way that the obnoxious brat at the beach who runs around kicking over other kids sandcastles is a bully.
Raiders go out of their way to demolish and destroy things (Regions) that other players have put an endless amount of effort into building and maintaining, and they gleefully trample on the memories of those who reside in those regions, and mock the players who dare to voice their displeasure at what they've built being torn down.
There's a lot of text here, so I'll try to keep this brief and to the point on the two constitutional questions.
A statement of being opposed to raiding This shouldn't be necessary. Forest is opposed to raiding, but that's because of the way the majority of the community feel, not because it says so in an official document. As long as we continue to settle questions by regional vote that sentiment is going to win out. It doesn't need to be encoded in the constitution, but regional officers would do well to bear it in mind. If another raider group came along in the near future with a similar proposal it would be entirely appropriate to tell them thanks, but that's never going to win regional approval.
Non-embassy diplomatic relations We're debating whether we should have these without being in any way clear on what it means. Sometimes people from other regions pop up in our Discord and talk to us on behalf of that region. When we paid attention to our forum someone from Europeia joined, created an embassy thread and started sharing their foreign news updates. Routinely government members from other regions TG or DM our foreign minister or Forest Keeper to say hi, we wish you well, let's talk if there's every a topic we need to discuss. This has always happened, and at no previous time did anyone decide that it was a thing and there should be a vote about it. It would be absurd to refuse to talk to people from other regions in those circumstances.
So what would a region with whom we had this relationship gain? They wouldn't be able to post to our RMB, and they already have access to all our other communication channels. It's suggested that Astoria would have been some kind of cultural link. If we want to include people from outside embassy regions in things like the weekly trivia and the photo contest we can easily do that - it seems a bit of an arbitrary requirement anyway. Why not open such events to everyone? If another region is staging an event then the extent to which they include us is entirely up to them. And if we were going to jointly run something with another region I imagine the government would seek approval for that on a case by case basis as recently happened with the chess event with TRTHNBB. I don't really understand what JEFF is all about, but our participation (again approved by vote on a case by case basis) seemed to work out OK before the embassy with Sol Aeternalis and doesn't appear to require any new mechanism.
Ultimately "formal diplomatic relations" seem to boil down to a statement of friendship. We already have embassies for that, and the current proposal has crashed and burned as emphatically as a proposal for a full embassy with Astoria would have done. In this sense the community doesn't see the distinction between an embassy and some partially defined embassy-lite. It's not edifying for either party to have this "sort of our friend" category, and in practice the community will withhold such as status from any region to which it wouldn't grant a full embassy.
Howdy y'all!
Guess what? Here's a list of ...
Everyday phrases you didn't know were borrowed from the Bible:
There are numerous words, phrases, expressions, and idioms in the English language that derive from the Bible. Amazingly, many have survived thousands of years and are still used to this day. From "going the extra mile" to "biting the dust," in this Factbook you'll find multiple examples of everyday phrases borrowed from the holy book. Scroll down and see how many you can recognize:
Go the extra mile
How many times have you been asked this at work? It essentially means to put in a special effort to achieve something. Matthew 5:41 reads: "And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain."
Rise and shine
This morning classic also has Biblical roots. It comes from Isaiah 60:1, which reads: "Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you."
Put words in one’s mouth
No one likes to be falsely accused of saying something they didn't. The expression comes from 2 Samuel 14:3: "And come to the king, and speak on this manner unto him. So Joab put the words in her mouth."
Eat, drink, and be merry
We've all heard this one before, especially during the holidays, right? The expression also comes from the Bible; Ecclesiastes 8:15, to be more precise: "Because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labor the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun."
Wolf in sheep’s clothing
This idiom is used to describe someone deceitful, who pretends to be good but has bad intentions. The phrase originates from Matthew 7:15, which reads: "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
Bite the dust
The phrase is used to describe the end: usually one's fall and/or death. It comes from Psalms 72:9: "They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.”
Like a lamb to the slaughter
The phrase is used to describe a helpless victim, someone who's oblivious to being led into a bad situation. Isaiah 53:7 reads: "He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth."
A drop in the bucket
This idiom means that a small thing doesn't really affect the big picture. The phrase "a drop in the ocean" is also very common. As for the roots, it comes from Isaiah 40:15: "Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he takes up the isles as fine dust."
The root of the matter
The phrase is used to describe the focal point of a matter. Job 19:28 reads: "But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the Root of the matter is found in me?"
No rest for the wicked
This phrase is usually used lightheartedly, when one must endure a task. It comes from the idea that evildoers face eternal punishment. Isaiah 57:20-21 reads: "But the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud. 'There is no peace,' says my God, 'for the wicked.'"
To move mountains
This popular expression is all about achieving great things, including feats that seem impossible. After all, "If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing," (1 Corinthians 13:2).
To cast pearls before swine
This idiom is about offering valuable things to people who don't appreciate them. Matthew 7:6 reads: "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
Scapegoat
Being a scapegoat (blamed for others' wrongdoings) can be traced all the way back to the Old Testament. Leviticus 16:9-10 says: "Aaron shall bring the goat whose lot falls to the Lord and sacrifice it for a sin offering. But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord to be used for making atonement by sending it into the wilderness as a scapegoat."
There’s nothing new under the sun
This phrase means there's simply nothing new, that everything has been done, seen, etc. It's often associated with monotony. Ecclesiastes 1:9 reads: "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."
Twinkling of an eye
This idiom is used to express something that happens very quickly. Its Biblical roots come from 1 Corinthians 15:52, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
Sign of the times
Many of us have used this expression to describe something that only happens now, usually with a negative connotation. Matthew 16:3 mentions it, "And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?"
Nothing but skin and bones
The phrase is usually used to describe someone who's unwell, unhealthy, or ill. The expression comes from Job 19:19-20, which reads: "All my intimate friends detest me; those I love have turned against me. I am nothing but skin and bones."
Forbidden fruit
The phrase is used to describe something that we desire because is not allowed. It's a reference to Adam and Eve and the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Genesis 3:3 explains: "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die."
For everything there is a season
Emotions, experiences, and everything else will be experienced throughout different stages of life. Ecclesiastes 3 explains that, "There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens."
Can a leopard change his spots?
This is used as a rhetorical question in reference to something (usually bad) that a person can't change. It comes from Jeremiah 13:23: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil."
By the skin of your teeth
This phrase is used when one just achieved something but nearly missed it. It implies a very narrow margin. It's Biblical roots can be found in Job 19:20: "My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth."
The blind leading the blind
This idiom is used to describe when one gets advice and is led by someone with no knowledge on the matter. Matthew 15:13-14 makes reference to it. "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
A millstone around your neck
This phrase is all about carrying a responsibility, a heavy burden. The Biblical reference can be found in Luke 17:2, which reads: "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin."
A fly in the ointment
The phrase is used to express a minor nuisance, something that annoys us and spoils the moment. Ecclesiastes 10:1 reads: "Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savor."
To fall by the wayside
When something falls by the wayside, it usually means something was not achieved because it was abandoned or canceled. The phrase is rooted in Luke 8:5 and the Parable of the Sower, who "went out to sow his seeds, and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it."
Feet of clay
This expression refers to a weakness that can lead to the downfall of someone or something. There is a reference to it in Daniel (2:31-45), where he talks about a dream and a statue that had "legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them."
Good Samaritan
This is a popular expression used to make reference to someone who helps without asking for anything in return, showing unselfishness and compassion. It comes from the Parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:30-37.
At your wit's end
This phrase can be used as a way to express struggle, not knowing what to do, being puzzled and perplexed. It's rooted in Psalm 107, where reference is made to sailors caught in a storm. "They reeled and staggered like drunkards;
they were at their wits’ end," (Psalm 107:27).
Writing's on the wall
This phrase is usually used as a presage that something bad is about to happen. It originally comes from Daniel 5.
Sources: (Mental Floss) (Unlocking the Bible) (Improving Your English)
Max a.k.a. Yip Man a.k.a. Texas Jaguarundi
Texas' Ambassador to Forest
Forest's Ambassador to Texas
Well... Since everyone's been voicing their opinion over the last few days, I feel like it's about time I get in on the act...
With regards to the whole R/D aspect of this debate - I feel like changing our constitution to explicitly state that we are against raiding and griefing is not necessary. We are a neutral region and, although many in our community are very much against raiding, I feel it would be wrong to change that. If we take a stance on it officially we are, by default, involving ourselves in the fiasco which many of us are here to avoid...
One thing I am very much against is barring raiders or raider-alligned people from our region. I know many people here are going to disagree with this next statement but I can genuinely say that raiders are nice people. Sure the way they play the game may be controversial but they're not evil or bullies, they just find enjoyment in... unorthodox ways. Now I'm not saying that what they do is right (because it's not), but in banning raiders or anyone raider-affiliated, I believe we would be shutting out people who could contribute to our region in positive ways...
On the non-embassy relations stuff - hmmm... I genuinely don't have a clue what form this would take. In a region where our (arguably) best thing is our RMB culture, I don't see how another region would benefit if they would not be able to engage in the discussions on the RMB... I think Uan's points are pretty much what I'm trying to say here. (This is the downside of just waiting to voice your opinion... everything's been said already, lol)
On the other hand... "Non-Embassy Relations" could just be that they can be involved in events and stuff... If we do end up developing any such relations, it would be great to include them.
Overall, I feel like it would be much easier just to establish an on-site embassy unless we are trying to form connections with a region that requires previous off-site relations... That's just my humble opinion though...
On Uan's points about events - This is an interesting point about why it's only embassy regions that are allowed to participate in our events. Opening it up to all regions (regardless of embassies etc...) isn't really something I've thought of before... In theory, it would be very simple but logistically, we would have to inform regions (otherwise we're just relying on *bob* from *insert region* checking the WFE) which then begs the question "how do we choose which regions to inform first?" We can't inform every region on NS so I guess that's why It's only Forest and our embassy regions that are included in events. That said, if someone from a non-embassy region submitted answers for our only current event - the trivia - I would more then happily accept it...
Thanks for mentioning that, I'll think about it... Perhaps in future some of the larger events I have planned could be opened to all. I'm not sure to what extent "all" would be but perhaps Jutsa has some ideas or thoughts?
Have a great day...
Thanks for letting me know, I'll try to be a little more interactive next time!
I'm very happy to see that things are still active around here. Some of the changes to how regions function seems really interesting. Love that this game is continually updated still, since like the 2000s, it's crazy it's still around.
I don't really know very much about this region to be honest, so I don't think I can say either way whether it's a good idea.
Nice! That sounds fun, I like trivia.
Thank you, and to everyone at Forest for always being so welcoming.
Edit: I'm not sure why the quote tags aren't working lol someone help me out!
Edit 2: I think I fixed it, but it must be a new development that generic quote tags don't work anymore?
The code for quote should have additional information. Like me quoting you looks like this:
[quote=great_lakes_municipalities;55522587]Edit: I'm not sure why the quote tags aren't working lol someone help me out![/quote]Just [quote] wouldn’t work technically. Usually the button “quote” on the board automatically sets all the code for it for each separate post you hit the button under
All this reading is tiring me out, I can't take it!
Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Northern Wood, Roless, and 4 othersZerphen, Garbelia, Furilisca, and Greater Morvonia
So this is going to be a new non-ICly thing! As some of you can tell by now, I do a lot of photography in my free time! Almost all the time it is a hobby thing - there were times when I do take photos with my family, or friends... and even then, I would not receive any money from it*. Not that I want to, actually. I do this for fun first and foremost, and being able to hone my skills just by taking a lot of photos have been nothing short of fantastic! And hey, you're your own boss in a hobby. I get free reign on where I want to go, and where I want to take shots!
* If in the event that I entered a photo for a competition with actual money involved, I will NOT be using NationStates to promote or involve it in any way, and will not tell about the contest until it's over.
My current equipment:
- Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra.
- LG V60.
- DSLR first and foremost - Nikon D850, attached with 18-105 Sigma Lens, full-frame.
- Unfortunately, my D5100 has nearly kicked the bucket, thank you for serving for these 13 years.
- Sony AXP-35 (a camcorder, might do some little shorts, too).
WARNING: Photos are extremely large and might drain your data. Might be slow too! Each photo, unless panoramas or cropped, is typically 5-25 MB big. Please make sure you have unlimited / more-than-enough data before opening.
The rest of the photos can be found here. As a general disclaimer, I am NOT paid by anyone to promote anything at this convention. What I took today are of my own interest and for memory sake, and there is no money involved, other than perhaps buying a couple of stuff here and there (which you probably wouldn't know unless I told you).
More in here, though it's only 48 shots out of the 66 as Imgur crashed.
The new photos are highlighted in green! This is more to test Samsung S24 Ultra's RAW capabilities (the phone that I got recently). And to be very clear, this is NOT a paid promo, I just got it out of my own accord. I know it's not the best camera phone there is and all, but I think it will do for those shots when I am going out without my DSLR. Will it replace my DSLR? Absolutely not. I still love my Nikon D850.
However, as I said, the phone will serve as the best camera that I will always have with me. So once again, this shows what it could do, where it may fall short, and the HDRs that I am able to churn out. HDR is not something I did solely on phones, I have done it with my DSLRs before. Artifacts are inevitable due to how some things (like trees) constantly move along with the wind.
The photos are all shot with manual control, which I am quite happy with so far. The only thing I am not happy as much with the S24 (and Samsung's stuff in general) is how utterly processed they tend to do. I have already minimized the processing, and hopefully the RAWs are untouched.
These photos are extremely nice :3
I didn't know we had a photographer in this region! (I mean I'm sure there are many but still)
Honestly I'd prefer to see people's photography than yet more discussion of this diplomatic relationship with astoria...
Thank you for your kind compliment, I appreciate it!
I don't do professional photography, I just do it for a hobby. But yeah, I have been doing it since 2014 and I am happy with my little hobby. :3 Definitely not the best shots and there are better photographers out there (in this region, on NS, or IRL), but I do try a lot. ♥
I genuinely couldn't even tell if you did it for a hobby or not, to me they looked like photos taken by a professional photographer in their free time :3
Except the one of the bird in flight, it was a lil grainy but still a very good photo!
Also just because it's a hobby doesn't mean you're not a photographer!
Oh nah, I totally understand and I want to show the limitation, so that's why I added that too! ♥
So again, no worries, critique and comments are welcome as always. :3
I apologise for the timing of this message, since it seems that most discussion has since cleared, but I have been busy and quite sick these last few days. I hope you would permit me to make this post and ramble some thoughts regarding the ongoing vote before it closes.
While the vote has yet to conclude, I feel that I personally would like to state a few things, as someone who has been frankly personally eyeing Forest as a second home for some time now (though never fully formalised, if I may add) and as a European. Additionally, I believe it pertinent to note that I am aware that I proceeded to inform Forest via Discord of the events that were happening during the time of the raid in my capacity as an official of the Foreign Office, but I would like that to be removed from consideration, as I believe that should not play any relevance to the opinions I am about to state. As a second addendum, please feel free to point out any inaccuracies I've made in this post, since I've only read some minimal content on Astoria and am also not knowledgeable on the manner in which Forest operates as a region.
Let me begin by stating that first and foremost, this is by no means meant to infringe upon the proceedings of Forest as an independent region, and that I will respect whatever conclusion Forest arrives at with regards to this vote (though it seems that the current consensus seems to be heading towards a solid no).I feel that I should note that I have spent the last few minutes backreading the vibrant conversation regarding the opening of embassies, and I have enjoyed reading the inputs of native Forestians, Europeans, and Astorians alike, not that I have expected anything different from Forest, known for its comparatively long messages. I believe that this sort of discussion is one that should be fostered when coming to topics such as these, with a healthy moderation concerning tone and accusations. Taking into account all that has been said thus far, I find myself opposed to this motion. I believe I echo many of the sentiments of Europeans regarding this.
First off, I'd like to say a few, short words regarding the communities themselves, though I'm certain I won't dwell. I've found Forest to be an incredibly welcoming community, and this proposal for relations would expand the reach of Forestian hospitality and quality discussion past new heights. Considering as well the status of Astoria as a growing region with a focus on RP and community-building (based on my minimal knowledge), I find myself quite happy of this clearly well-thought-out and planned idea, based off of the coordination between Zerphen and Rosartemis if I read that right. I also similarly applaud the efforts of Astoria in completing fascist wipeouts, as I feel that discourages more fascists from gathering on this site. I quite like the theming of both regions actually :p. I believe this whole proposal would have gone much better had the big elephant in the room not existed.
Speaking of said elephant, all I have said thus far is precluding the involvement of Astoria on the raid of Europe. Normally, I don't find myself opposed to the idea of having embassies with raider and defender organisations, especially if I'm not an actual part of the region. If anything, I find that to be a good thing, as it brings more vibrance to the interconnectedness of the regions on NS. However, this becomes different when we're speaking about a region that openly flaunts its involvement in the raid on Europe. Europe and Forest have been longstanding allies, both with a stance of historic neutrality and non-involvement in the R/D gameplay aspects. Additionally, there is a sizeable former European diaspora in Forest, some of whom, like Eins, remain involved in Europe to this day. Connecting this to what I said earlier, I believe it's quite alright for both Forest and Europe (especially since I'm a resident) to have their embassy affiliations with both raider and defender organisations.
The issue is of the fact that Astoria has partaken in the raid of Europe. Though I am not certain of the extent of Astoria's involvement in the desecration (for lack of a better term) of the Europe RMB, I am incredibly dismayed at this. It was not fun standing around and being essentially helpless to aid the situation, since executive power remained with the position of the Delegacy and the Governorship, the former being held by IA, the latter being held by EuroFounder/Myrth, and the only reason I was not kicked out was due to the high amount of accumulated influence the endorsement-friendly nature of Europe has garnered me and other fellow Europeans. The next few hours was nothing short of chaos, until EuroFounder/Myrth stepped in following a prolonged absence (which is only one of many reasons why I believe Myrth should have surrendered the governorship long ago to the European community, though that's neither a rabbit hole I am not willing to explore at the moment, nor is it beneficial to the discussion despite being mentioned multiple times, which is the only reason why I bring this note up). What matters with regards to Astoria is that they, no matter how large, took part in the ejection of around 600 nations, desecration of the Europe page, and basically reshaped European history in a negative way. This is the primary reason I object to this motion.
In a similar vein, I'd like to address also the recognition of Astoria's involvement in the raid of Europe. I laud the achievement of toppling one of the largest regions on site. This is something I believe I've stated previously, both on the European RMB and on the forums. The fact that it even happened is nothing short of a wonder itself. I say this to note that I believe that Astoria is right in proudly showing this achievement they've performed (even if only one member participated in said raid), as is customary for those in R/D gameplay. As for R/D gameplay itself, I have a lot of thoughts on the matter, but I will be summarising it in relation to the raid on Europe: it was mean (for lack of a better term). I do not like to use the word bullying, despite I feel that it is somewhat adjacent to how I feel about raiding. Having raiders hijack a community for a few hours was... not fun. I can go through our RMB and attribute tens of pages to the raiders and discussion surrounding the raiders, a discussion which I disliked partaking in. I also particularly dislike how raiders barge into a region, especially one of noted neutrality, and assert and lord themselves over a helpless populace. This is another aspect I dislike about raiding, the fact it disenfranchises communities and people. Having this happen for a few hours was disorientating, but having this happen in another region for a prolonged period of time (something I honestly kind of feared due to Myrth's uninvolvement) would be a bit heartbreaking for someone who has poured time and effort into it.
However, this is also a massive point of contention as this has a lot of far-reaching implications on the state of relations between our three regions: Astoria, Europe, and Forest. Should the vote proceed to the formalisation of relations between Astoria and Forest, that would mean that Forest is affiliating with a region that has, to say it without sugarcoating, attacked and destroyed Europe for a time. I have no doubt that this would sour relations past this strained point, and as noted by several members, would probably start for a motion to remove embassies with Forest and sever ties. I believe that we, as Forest and Europe, should stand together as neutral regions. By associating with Astoria, it would feel as if it were a pointed attack (not that it is) towards Europe by a fellow ally. This, I feel, would hurt Europeans and Forestians alike, but most especially (though I can't claim to speak for them) those who spent significant amounts of time in both Europe and Forest.
All this to say, I am glad that Forest has stood largely opposed to this motion. I am hoping for the continued prosperity of European-Forestian relations in the future, even despite this minor blip.
Edit: Mega-Essay Number Seventy-Three Incoming Hot
I completely forgot about that. I learned someone from Europa (later Eurth) shared updates with us only fairly recently, and it is straight-up an unofficial "friend" sort-of-thing (it might be a two-way street now but still). But Europeia had an active embassy with actively appointed ambassadors... for four years... Like. I know we didn't need a process for that and I'm glad they did but (kinda hope they do again) but... wha xD I'd have definitely put that on the "formal" end as relationships go but maybe they're even more lax about these processes ^^
I'd personally be fine with inviting other regions honestly. There are a ton of great communities on NationStates that would probably be more interested in the events than half if not most of our embassies, frankly. Admittedly that was already rather time-consuming for me since I refused to simply copy/paste my message on everyone's RMB (and with larger regions they each have a slightly if not totally different process on what goes where and even who announces it), but uh.
At the same time it's definitely invitational / by request (which, others can do; I posted on the GP embassy and all that). We wouldn't want a region like Fifth Empire joining this thing would we ;P And plus I'd have to get the clear from The Region That Has No Big Banks for every region since they're primarily hosting it. Tl;dr logistics issue but like not really an insurmountable one. (And that could certainly change for other events.)
Side note: Another thing is it's "regions" on a list this event on TRTHNBB's end, but "individuals" on ours, which also complicates things just a tad. I told Nucl they can just pencil them down under "forest" if it's easier and anyone's worried about their region's name being put on an "official" list somewhere though I doubt most places care as much as some of us do about that ;p
Well, embassies are an on-site connection of RMBs, so there's definitely a nuance between an embassy and a "statement of friendship" (in which I'd set out to share updates / have an ambassador for instead of just ignoring and letting happenstance do that). Again, see TNP; it's basically an embassy, just... without the embassy, which is sort-of the point of the issue. But then we come back to this argument:
I agree with this, and I do hope that (outside of maybe a few OOC inferences from IC actions like being part of Fifth Empire or something) is the case. I know there were some passionate feelings we'd initially witnessed at Zerphen's vote alone, so I think it's worth remembering this. Because outside of IC regional recognition it isn't clear how much different a formal relationship is from an OOC sharing of regional ongoings and events between friends and whether someone is appointed to make a special note to remember each other. (Although in Astoria's case specifically I guess there'd be room for an IC agreement to protect us militarily if we ever requested it.)
In other words I would hope this vote is against either having IC relations with Astoria or Forest having IC relations period. Cause as soon as you start questioning someone doing the thing where they hang out freely in another region (that isn't widely accepted as being downright awful anyway), well - still can be partly an IC issue but then things get very dodgy very quickly. And even if that's not an issue, it does make me wonder, would we even be alright with anyone from their region inviting us to their events or vice versa, if we have such a qualm with an "official" cultural relationship?
So to get back to this:
I think in light of all that's been said, I do think I'd go against having a non-embassy formal-relations process constitutionalized for the very reason that... well, it is extremely hard to qualify. It's like trying to measure the velocity and location of a quantum particle with a yardstick. Even my own interpretations of what "constitute" that are just that, my interpretations (and maybe overanalysis). That's not to say you can't have a catch-all process for things that lie "in the middle", but I do agree it's probably wholly unnecessary and would probably cause more problems than just winging it like we do now.
Final note:
That's because we're actually not technically in an "official" relationship with them. I mean. It's certainly a relationship since they'd have to like us enough to invite us and many of us joined but ;P we didn't officially agree to join any of their site-wide events as a default option, and we made perfectly clear that we are not "officially" participating as a region. Which, again, a lot of regions do. Something something IC-OOC divide or whathaveyou.
And yeah that absolutely worked without an embassy. UDCS just likes us and also thought an embassy between our regions would be good lol. In practice he and Lendy and a couple Forestians already hang out through (primarily JEFF and TRTHNBB's) discord so it truly didn't make a difference beyond a formal recognition of friends. Which, we technically could have done without embassies; but they chose the far more straightforward and practical path since they're a smaller "normal" region ;P
P.S. I hope it's alright I singled your post out; I think it's just a great post and makes a ton of great discussion points xD
I'd like to bring forth an administrative issue. I have seen a lot of in depth opinions regarding the current poll. What strikes me as odd though is that almost all of it seems to center around a judgement of Astoria's raiding activities in particular the one regarding Europe.
When it comes to establishing an embassy that would be warranted as that can be seen as an official "seal of approval" by the region. Diplomatic relations (formal or not) serve a different purpose. It is mainly about creating / keeping an open line of communication between the regions. The establishment of such relations themselves are without a (formal) "value judgement" of the region or its (previous) actions. Once established they can (and will) be used to express a "value judgement" but in the creation itself that should not be what is driving the outcome. As the wounds regarding the raid are somewhere between still scabbing to completely open a diplomatic relation would be extremely helpful if only as to establish a bridge between the regions in question.
That brings me to the administrative issue. We have long ties with Europe but I failed to find who is our current ambassador. I suspect Einswenn but the current (??) factbook doesn't mention them nor their counterpart. I value open discussion and I would like to applaud the efforts made by Zerphen and Jutsa to make that possible. At the same time we are now trying to establish new diplomatic relations without "formalising" or "filling in" the ones we currently already have making this open discussion perhaps a bit more chaoctic than it could have been.
So could the "real" ambassadors please stand up.....please stand up.....[humming Eminem as we take a sip from our smoothy]
Jutsa has published the ambassador updates here, and I didn’t follow if the factbooks were updated. I am not an ambassador to any region at this moment, despite my occasional yet systematic involvement in conversations on Europe’s board I am not really wishing to be an official diplomatic face there due to my personal political reasons :P
Somehow got an issue where they got mad at me for spending over 1 billion of my currency on security even though I have an economy worth 1,035 trillion lol? Nationstates works in mysterious ways.
For future reference, I've been updating ambassadors in my list here:
* Green boxes indicate active relations, embassies, treaties, or ambassadors.
* Red boxes indicate cancelled, removed, or absent, or original region no longer exists.
Note: Another region with the same name may exist. Even if it contains the same community, only the specific on-site region is considered in a listing.
* Yellow boxes indicate pending additions / removals, suspensions (such as raids),
contested by government/citizenry, or de facto no longer exists.
* Grey boxes indicate not applicable or never existed.
*Dates and other information may not be 100% accurate or may be missing
* Some embassies may be marked as "active relations", despite the region itself having little or no activity.
* Dates based on EST and Month-Day-Year formatting
* Listings ordered from when diplomatic relations were first opened
* Listed active ambassadors and "Present" are accurate up until the last dispatch update.
* For more information on ambassadors from forest, see: Ambassadors
Regions with Current Diplomatic Relations
Region | Diplomatic Relations | On-Site Embassy | Treaty | Outgoing Ambassador | Incoming Ambassador |
05/11/24 - Present | 05/11/24 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
04/04/24 - Present | 04/04/24 - Present | N/A | Jutsa (Available) | ||
01/03/24 - Present | 01/03/24 - Present | N/A | |||
11/24/21 (03/21/11) | 11/24/21 - Present | N/A | N/A | ||
08/12/21 (11/25/15) | 08/12/21 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
02/06/20 - Present | 02/06/20 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
12/18/19 - Present | 12/18/19 - Present | N/A | Terrawynn (On Leave) | Vacant | |
01/02/19 - Present | 01/02/19 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
11/10/18 - Present | 11/10/18 - Present | N/A | |||
08/06/18 - Present | 08/06/18 - Present | N/A | |||
06/20/18 - Present | 06/20/18 - 12/11/22 | N/A | |||
05/18/18 - Present | 05/18/18 - Present | N/A | |||
02/05/18 - Present | 02/05/18 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
01/09/18 - Present | 01/09/18 - Present | N/A | Vacant | ||
12/26/17 - Present | 12/26/17 - Present | N/A | Jutsa (Available) | Vacant | |
08/05/17 - Present | 08/05/17 - Present | N/A | Vacant | ||
05/10/17 - Present | 05/10/17 - Present | N/A | Jutsa (Available) | Vacant | |
04/29/17 - Present | 04/29/17 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
04/23/17 - Present | 04/23/17 - Present | N/A | Vacant | ||
03/20/17 -Present | 03/20/17 - Present | The Rejected Realms - Forest | Vacant | ||
12/09/16 - Present | 12/09/16 - Present | N/A | Vacant | ||
11/25/16 - Present | 11/25/16 - Present | N/A | |||
08/11/16 - Present | 08/11/16 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
05/11/16 - Present | 05/11/16 - 11/01/16, | N/A | |||
12/01/15 - Present | 12/01/15 - 04/02/23, | N/A | Parkplace (Official), | ||
11/01/15 - Present | 11/01/15 - 08/06/16, | N/A | Vacant | ||
07/25/15 - Present | 07/25/15 - Present | N/A | |||
05/21/15 - Present | 05/21/15 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
01/22/15 - Present | 01/22/15 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
01/03/15 - Present | 01/03/15 - Present | N/A | Vacant | ||
02/27/12 - Present | 02/27/12 - Present | N/A | Jutsa/Jutsilonia (Available) | Vacant | |
01/12/13-Present | 01/12/13 - Present | Forest-Yggdrasil Treaty | Vacant | ||
10/05/12 (05/22/11) | 10/05/12 - Present | N/A | Vacant | Vacant | |
12/17/11-Present | 12/17/11 - Present | Forest - Eladen Compact | Vacant | Vacant | |
03/21/11 - 07/31/21 | 03/21/11 - Present | N/A | N/A | N/A (Moved |
Former Relations
Region | Diplomatic Relations | On-Site Embassy | Successor/Merger |
10/20/20 - 06/09/21 (233 days) | 10/20/20 - 06/09/21 (233 days) | N/A | |
07/02/20 - 06/24/21 (358 Days) | 07/02/20 - 10/22/21 (478 Days) | N/A | |
New Refugia | 03/06/20 - 05/11/20 (66 Days) | 03/06/20 - 05/11/20 (66 Days) | |
04/21/19 - 05/25/22 (1,131 days) | 04/21/19 - 05/25/22 (1,131 days) | N/A | |
02/24/19 - 09/26/19 (214 Days) | 02/24/19 - 09/26/19 (214 Days) | ||
11/13/18 - 01/14/24 (1,523 days) | 11/13/18 - 01/14/24 (1,523 days) | N/A | |
08/24/20 - 07/26/23 (1,066 days) | 08/24/20 - 01/11/24 (1,235 days) | ||
Evergreen Conifer | 02/05/20 - 08/30/20 (208 days) | 02/05/20 - 08/30/20 (208 days) | |
Conifer | 10/29/18 - 02/05/20 (465 days) | 10/29/18 - 02/05/20 (465 days) | Evergreen Conifer |
03/19/18 - 05/11/19 (419 days) | 03/19/18 - 05/11/19 (419 days) | N/A | |
01/23/18 - 03/02/19 (404 days) | 01/23/18 - 03/02/19 (404 days) | N/A | |
03/06/17 - 03/21/18 (381 days) | 03/06/17 - 03/21/18 (381 days) | N/A | |
11/11/16 - 04/16/18 (521 days) | 11/11/16 - 04/16/18 (521 days) | N/A | |
04/21/17 - 07/11/19 (812 Days) | 04/21/17 - 09/02/20 (1,231 Days) | ||
11/25/15 - 08/15/17 (630 Days) | 11/25/15 - 08/15/17 (630 Days) | ||
02/24/15 - 12/21/21 (2,493 days) | 02/24/15 - 12/21/21 (2,493 days) | N/A | |
The region of environmental nations | 03/07/14 - 03/28/14 (22 days) | 03/07/14 - 03/28/14 (22 days) | N/A |
Association of eco friendly nations | 01/19/14 - 04/01/14 (72 days) | 01/19/14 - 04/01/14 (72 days) | N/A |
Shirayuki | 06/23/13 - 08/20/14 (423 days) | 06/23/13 - 08/20/14 (423 days) | N/A |
Irene arcipelago | 11/14/12 - 04/17/13 (154 days) | 11/14/12 - 04/17/13 (154 days) | N/A |
Occupy NationStates | 08/06/12 - 11/10/13 (461 days) | 08/06/12 - 11/10/13 (461 days) | N/A |
United peoples of the awakened lands | 07/22/12 - 04/11/13 (264 days) | 07/22/12 - 04/11/13 (264 days) | N/A |
05/25/12 - 08/27/20 (3,019 days) | 05/25/12 - 08/27/20 (3,019 days) | N/A | |
05/05/12 - 12/04/13 (579 days) | 05/05/12 - 12/04/13 (579 days) | N/A | |
Region of elyswer | 04/17/12 - 09/13/12 (150 days) | 04/17/12 - 09/13/12 (150 days) | N/A |
Domicilium | 04/07/12 - 12/04/13 (607 days) | 04/07/12 - 12/04/13 (607 days) | N/A |
Misty lake | 03/10/12 - 05/10/12 (62 days) | 03/10/12 - 05/10/12 (62 days) | N/A |
02/25/12 - 11/04/15 (1,349 days) | 02/25/12 - 11/04/15 (1,349 days) | N/A | |
Deep blue planet | 02/24/12 - 04/25/12 (62 days) | 02/24/12 - 04/25/12 (62 days) | N/A |
Redwood | 02/08/12 - 12/14/13 (676 days) | 02/08/12 - 12/14/13 (676 days) | N/A |
Emeraldise | 01/19/12 - 10/09/13 (630 days) | 01/19/12 - 10/09/13 (630 days) | N/A |
01/17/12 - 02/21/14 (767 days) | 01/17/12 - 02/21/14 (767 days) | N/A | |
Ecotopia | 12/11/11 - 11/04/15 (1,425 days) | 12/11/11 - 11/04/15 (1,425 days) | N/A |
Underground economy | 10/06/11 - 03/27/12 (172 days) | 10/06/11 - 03/27/12 (172 days) | N/A |
Valletta | 06/17/11 - 09/13/11 (89 days) | 06/17/11 - 09/13/11 (89 days) | N/A |
05/29/11 - 11/28/17 (2,376 days) | 05/29/11 - 11/28/17 (2,376 days) | N/A | |
California | 05/29/11 - 10/25/15 (1,613 days) | 05/29/11 - 10/25/15 (1,613 days) | N/A |
Green Planet | 05/23/11 - 11/04/13 (897 days) | 05/23/11 - 11/04/13 (897 days) | N/A |
10/07/12 - 11/21/12 (45 days) | 10/07/12 - 11/21/12 (45 days) | ||
Hippiedom | 05/22/11 - 09/25/12 (494 days) | 05/22/11 - 09/25/12 (494 days) | |
The Artist Coalition | 05/22/11 - 07/21/11 (60 days) | 05/22/11 - 07/21/11 (60 days) | N/A |
N-Day and Special Event Relations:
NOTE: SMALLER EVENTS LIKELY NOT LISTED. EVENTS BEFORE 2021 (N-Day 7) HAVE MISSING INFO AND WIP. PLEASE TELEGRAM ME IF YOU HAVE INFORMATION.
Region | Events | Coordinators |
N-Day 5 (An Alliance of Potatoes), | ||
N-Day 2-7 [2017-2022] (Forest, Canopy, PA) | ||
N-Day 2-8 [2017-Feb 2023] (Forest, Canopy, PA) | ||
N-Day 3-5 [2018-20] (Canopy, PA) | ||
N-Day 3-6 [2018-21] (Canopy, PA) | ||
N-Day 4 [2019] (Canopy) | "CraftyDrac" |
|
N-Day 4 [2019] (Canopy) | ||
N-Day 4-5 [2019-20] (Canopy, PA) | ||
N-Day 4-5 [2019-20] (Canopy, PA) | ||
N-Day 4-6 [2019-21] (Canopy, PA) | ||
N-Day 4-6 [2019-21] (Canopy, PA) | ||
N-Day 4 [2019] (Canopy) | Unknown at this time | |
N-Day 4 [2019] (Canopy) | ||
N-Day 4 (+?) [2019] (Canopy) | Operated under 10000 Islands | |
N-Day 4-8 [2019-Feb 2023] (Canopy, PA) | ||
N-Day 5-8 [2020-Feb 2023] (PA, Canopy) | ||
N-Day 6 [2021] (PA) | Haganham, Areuldar | |
Jellyfish Elite Fighting Force | N-Day 9-10 [Fall 2023 - Spring 2024] | The Region that Has No Big Banks under New United Common-lands |
I've been so preoccupied with this poll and other embassy requests (sorry in the middle of a french zoom, fixed my stupid typo) that I haven't gotten around to figuring out what I'm going to do with Prusmia's current ambassador or embassy policy dispatches, nor have I gotten to making my dispatch "official" (insofar as linking it in the wfe/gp embassy or pinning it). Ironic I decided to instead update my list of NPC nation occurances in GI but I completely forgot I had to do the one and the other was on the mind. I am truly random.
Disregard! Misread a comma as a decimal point and did a bunch of irrelevant math :-P
I think your math is off: it's significantly less than a tenth of a percent of the economy. If my math is right, it's closer to one-ten-thousandth of a percent of the total economy.
1 Billion / 1 Quadrillion = 0.000001, or 0.0001%.
EDIT: Which is even less than your example regarding the US, which would come to 0.00218181818182%
Gah, yup - I read that as a decimal rather than a comma (1.032 trillion rather than 1,032 trillion). Please disregard my previous post :-P
Calenmor, Jutsa, Atsvea, Lord Dominator, and 5 othersMcClandia Doge 2, Garbelia, Greater Morvonia, Bisofeyr, and Ryepple
Many regions that get raided are already inactive and dead, often only alive because of the raider puppets that haven't moved out.
Also, you can always do stuff to make sure your region is safe. You can add a password to your region, make the delegate unexecutive, and keep the governor account alive, which means raiders will not raid it. And still, there are a lot of regions that do not do that, and it's not always ones that can't for some reason. They know what will happen and do nothing to stop it.
Speaking of raiding...
At today's major update, Colonia Apollonis was raided by (I believe) a coalition of TBH and BoM raiders (I know Valoptia/Leofric is TBH but I'm not sure about Thorn. I think he's BoM but could also be TBH). Their delegate, Faralried, was overthrown and all ROs dismissed...
Thankfully our friends over at The Region That Has No Big Banks launched a liberation attempt at today's minor update which has proved to be successful. The delegacy has been restored and all previous ROs reinstated...
If I'm not mistaken, one of our newest embassies Sol Aeternalis has close links with Colonia Apollonis so I thought it was worth mentioning - especially given the current discussion...
Have a great day...
(Edit - I know this is more an MoFA thing but oh well...)
(Edit 2 - Got the regions wrong.
. I meant BoM, not TCB. That's Leofric's home region, not raider region... my bad
It does indeed. I had one event which caused my citizens to suddenly acquire over 200 billion weapons overnight!!
«12. . .2,6422,6432,6442,6452,6462,6472,648. . .2,6522,653»
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